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[Linrad] Re: Linrad - MAP65 communication

Hello Leif,

Have been away a couple of days without the radio
stuff. Hope to pick up the conversation later.

I don't believe it is language matter. It is more
I think, like in a school class, a world wide school
class. Also if there were a good recording mechanism
where questions and answers would be stored in such a way
that one could go and read first ( I know most of us fail
in that activity ) before asking repeat questions over and over.
The last, being hard on the designer/teacher.

73 Rein W6SZ

-----Original Message-----
>From: Leif Asbrink <leif@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jul 20, 2009 7:25 PM
>To: linrad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad - MAP65 communication
>Hello Rein,
>> On the feedback part. 
>> One needs to be very inviting and patient I think.
>Yes, I have done my best. (But English is not my native
>> Re this:
>> >>I like to give an example. 
>> >> 
>> >> You talk about setting the addresses in the setup menu.
>> >> It is the most logical thing to do, in my inquires with others
>> >> I asked in several ways how and where to do it. The limit
>> >> is that I never had the foresight to go there nor did any 
>> >> of the the people that I contacted. Looking back now I certainly
>> >>  feel stupid but I was not the only person not being aware of this
>> >> it seems from here at least.
>> >This is kind of interesting. Do you have any suggestion about how
>> >to improve on this point?
>> >
>> >The user is supposed to press 'N', 'R' or 'T' if he wants to
>> >use the network. If the network is not set up (there is no
>> >file par_network) all three keys lead to the 'N' menu. 
>> >(Which I perhaps should make more verbose.)
>> It is really interesting I tried to do the networking first quite a while
>> ago and then I did not get anywhere, Thought "lets wait, there will be questions
>> and answers and you will understand howto it by then".
>> The feed back part!
>> Then thought that the system wanted to work perhaps with the 239,555.0.0 I think it
>> is.  the 239 address hard programmed into Linrad )
>> So I thought,  if I set manually the IP of the network card to that address
>> it might perhaps work!
>> Then I found for whatever reason I can not set the first block to 239, 
>> ( 239 invalid should be < 223 )
>> I guess I stppped at that time
>> So that was some of the process here.
>There is a need for a text about networking in general. I do not
>know enough to write it myself. 
>By the way, the source code package contains text files that
>may contain relevant information:
>> I have been programmed today to ask when it comes to communicating
>> with instruments, programs and the like, the IP addresses?
>That is because you normally want an error free link between
>two (and two only) computers. 
>> In short, my approach to computer problems is not
>> necessary menu clicking. I don't dare to go into unknown
>> area's when it comes to computers. ( dare is perhaps too strong )
>> A generational thing I believe!
>> "Don't turn knobs , move handles if you do not know what will happen"
>Oooh! You are an old man.....
>Look at the young ones. They turn and click wildly and expect to
>be guided by feedback from the computer:-)
>> I know from work experience many others and particular younger people
>> act completely different.
>> I suggest to add to the basic Linrad package 2 files, empty or with
>> neutral text.
>> par_netsend_ip
>> par_netrec_ip
>> The user is suggested to modify these files during network setup.
>This is doable. I could put the address that MAP65 wants if someone
>will remind me what it is.
>The default would still be the same, but by typing -1 instead of 
>something in the range 0 to 15 the address would be fetched from
>the file.
>> I tried to find and was asking for something along those lines earlier.
>> Besides that to write ( we can do that ) a general piece about network
>> issues in relation to LINRAD and MAP65 and perhaps about connecting
>> computers to programs, instruments, black boxes.
>Yes. That would be very good. Something about networks in general. With
>a focus on local networks and some information about how packets
>pass through switches. I think the default address of Linrad would
>propagate to every computer on a local network through all switches
>while packages on the MAP65 addres would only reach those parts
>of a network that are needed th transfer data between the desired
>computers. I really do not know, but I hope someone else will
>be able to write something about this.
>> Leif I believe you have a tendency to inform after one pushes. This means
>> that if one does not push, one never learns or gets informed.
>Well, I have written quite a lot of text that it seems nobody is reading.
>By writing more about the wrong things I would only hide the important
>information in "noise" There is a limit in how much people can read
>without loosing interest.
>> You also put the help files after the pushing, again what can I say, 
>> remember it! 
>That is true. Someone suggested this brilliant idea to me. I actually
>never hit my mind before.
>> This is nothing critical and perhaps it is not even quite true but
>> I have that impression. Also this is only in relation to the linrad
>> program
>Well, it is certainly true - and I do need the pushes to be able to
>understand what is creating problems.
>> I like to know the way before I push.
>But why? I try to create an interest in using Linrad for various
>purposes. It is really easy to download and unzip the 3 files needed
>for Windows. Unfortunately there is no installer with a beautiful
>icon to place on the desktop, but that is because I have no idea how
>to create such a thing.
>I have had a feedback from someone who was not able to unpack
>the zip file and type linrad in the command window and he would
>have been helped by an installer. Maybe someone can help?
>> It all comes down how one approaches
>> to solve a problem or answer a question.
>> BTW I have a whole bunch of questions about this part 
>> the "R". "T" , "W" as well as "0" ) zero. But we can go 
>> over this later.
>> I like to suggest we start a new section with questions and answers 
>> and that some one, you , I or who ever want to do this compiles a 
>> file of the questions , answers and solutions, from the reflector
>> content, with all the reflector house keeping removed. As this
>> file grows it will be posted on the web,
>This would be excellent. Meanwhile I will make changes whenever
>appropriate to make Linrad behave in a way that makes as much as
>possible of the information needless. (But it would have to 
>remain correct.)
>> For me at least, it is very difficult and time consuming to extract the 
>> relevant info and details from the Google type of protocol. 
>Absolutely. The idea is that you should find all the information
>in Linrad itself after having read the newcomers page:
>By selecting 'N' as the first keypress when starting Linrad for
>the first time you will start in "newcomer mode." This way it
>should be rather easy for a newcomer to get a working system
>because many parameters will silently be set to default values. 
>> For this job I don't want to push myself  but I can do it and post it.
>> That is if no volunteers come forward. 
>OK. Please start with a first question by describing shortly at what
>point something is unclear. (And how you got to that point.) 
>Perhaps we can arrive at some modification I can do in Linrad or 
>in the Linrad for newcomers page that would solve the issue. 
>In some cases that would not be possible because your questions 
>may be related to a particular hardware (or to MAP65) and then 
>there might be a need for an answer in your particular situation.
>If someone could write a text that would fit on a single screen
>I could add it in the help file so one coulÃd press F1 to read it
>during the network setup. Together with default files for 
>par_netsend_ip and par_netrec_ip it seems to me that the problems
>you have encountered with network setup should be solved.
>   73
>  Leif

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