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[linrad] Re: Linux Strikes Again

At 04:32 PM 5/23/2005 -0400, you wrote:
This behaviour of the O/S should be no surprise.

*Roger, perhaps this is true, however, it is still a surprise to my simple mind. I freely admit that these problems are between my ears. I just don't know how to recover from this failure on my part to grasp the concept.

I think that there are 2 reasonable alternatives:

1. Use the CD as was intended for new users, and boot off of it each time you want to use Linux/Linrad, and forget installing it to hard disk. You can save your configuration and a disk image to windows as previously described, so that you don't lose all of your 'stuff' each time you reboot.

2. Decide to learn all about Linux and become a developer. Then installing Linux to hard disk makes sense. But then you will definitely need to learn all about Linux. When the install to hard disk instructions were given they were in this context:

"Most of this document describes what I did to set up a system so that I could crank out Knoppix-CD's with Linad and svgalib on them, in case you want to do that too. However, first, here is a description of what you need to do to use the KNOPPIX CD that I made with Linrad and svgalib already on it".

I guess this wasn't clear enough. I should have explicitly said "Stay away from option #2 above unless you are, or want to be, a developer".

I have commented in previous emails and in several documents the addresses
of which I have posted that the UNIONFS folder is there only when the
RAMDISK system is in play , when the CD boot is used. It is therefore
perfectly logical [and in fact expected] that it will disappear when a
Hard drive installation is performed. And as just stated, this behaviour
has been documented previously on this list.

*I have no thought that your CD is defective. As a matter of fact, it is the only bright spot in my entire Linux/Linrad experience. The simple fact remains that I do not, even with your explanation, grasp the concept that what I install from the CD is not what I get when I boot from the CD.

OK, the line:

" OR, am I stuck until the current W3SZ file is modified to properly install on HDD?"

sounded to me like it was saying that the disk/file was defective. But I see now that that is just one way to interpret it. The file is not defective. It was designed to work when the CD is used to boot into Linux. When one boots from Hard disk, the file structure is different [no UNIONFS] and so the file will not work. If one has installed to hard disk, one is presumably a developer, and doesn't need the script file, which is there just so new users don't need to know anything about the file structure on the disk when they boot up using the CD.

There is nothing wrong with the CD that I uploaded in this respect.  The
scripts are written for CD boot. They are not written for HD boot. If you
wish to boot from HD and use the scripts, simply remove the UNIONFS
portion of the address from the scripts where necessary and all will work

The above says, "Remove the /UNIONFS from the addresses that don't work". If you do that after you have installed to hard disk, all will work. If you can't find a file you need, just do 'updatedb' and then locate 'filexxx' or whatever and Linux will show you everywhere 'filexxx' appears. You can use the wildcard '*' where appropriate.


*I feel like I have been learning Linux for centuries. The simple fact remains that in my simple mind there is no logic to the Linux structure. This problem is not about lack of effort to learn about Linux, rather it is about something in my thought process that has not yet come to grips with the Linux structure and processes. I have a stack of information that has now grown to well over 2.5 inches thick. I have read every page several times, and so far it has yet to sink in. This information includes everything from a 166 page "basic" tutorial on Linux, to all of the generously offered information from you and others on this reflector. apparently I must be willing to accept the idea that I must be confined to the Live CD concept.

I'd suggest re-reading some of what you have read, and trying some exercises like finding certain filename fragments on the hard drive, running linrad and other applications from directories other than their own and seeing what happens, using the 'dir' function from directories other than the one in which you reside, etc. The only way to 'learn' linux is to use it, make mistakes, and try to figure out what went wrong and then correct it.

Taking some time to learn just a little bit about Linux, however
distasteful that may be, will go a long way in helping one to solve these
problems as they arise.

I am like that dog chasing the car. Now that I have caught it, I don't know what to do with it.

I'd suggest:

1.	Using Linrad after booting from the CD.

2.    Playing with Linux as above to get more familiar with it.

3. Not bothering to work with Linux installed on the hard drive unless you want to become a developer.

Let me suggest this as a possibility: is it possible to copy the data from the Live CD to a HDD and run it as if it were being booted from the CD? That would preserve the ease of using the Live CD, and provide the speed gained from a HDD installation.

"sudo knoppix-installer" typed from within Knoppix after booting up from the CD will install knoppix on a hard drive. Then, I believe, if you are using the 2005-5-15 version, the /knuser/linrad directory will contain linrad and you can just go there and type "./linrad" to run Linrad.

Remember that you need to be a superuser to run Linrad, so type 'su' in the terminal window before running Linrad.

I just tried the 2005-5-15 CD on another machine, a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with onboard sound and PCI Express Video and two serial ATA drives, and Linrad runs fine although the screen becomes whited out after one leaves Linrad. So this Knoppix 3.8.1 CD works fine on this new hardware. But Knoppix 3.8.2 hangs up partway thru the boot process. I haven't had time to investigate this [and probably won't for a while]. The 3.8.2 does use a new hardware detection algorithm. It is possible that this doesn't like the SATA drives. I will at this point stay with the most recent CD 2005-5-15 rather than moving forward to the 3.8.2 version of Knoppix, and will stay with LInrad-01.34 as well, because the current CD seems to be working OK.

The download currently on the website will therefore remain the current version for the forseeable future.



Roger Rehr

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